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Premium Diesel v Standard....


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Posted

I have and I'm very impressed!

It happened by chance as my local station was out of the standard stuff and although on my way to ASDA I'm now of the opinion their stuff is sub-standard?

Anyway, I was empty so £50 worth and see how it goes, surprisingly, but perhaps because I was so low to start with, there seemed to be an improvement on the return trip from ASDA!

Now though, after another 40 quids worth, there is no doubt the MPG is up 4-5mpg but perhaps more importantly engine runs more smoothly, pulls more strongly from lower speeds using higher gears and does not sound like a tin of rusty spanners if I really boot it!

Last Friday I got stuck in a traffic jam, in 1st and feet fully off the clutch and accelerator, the car pulled smoothly uphill at a rock steady 800rpm, that's never been possible before!

Just to clarify, I generally do the worst type of driving, ie, a couple of miles here or there with a cold engine, so up from 32-3 to 37-8mpg is significant to say the least!

Plus, I've not yet done the simple maths on cost v mpg, but I'm more concerned with preserving expensive pump and injector life than any mpg savings. So if it breaks even on mpg I'm more than happy.

Conclusion, the guy at the petrol was not at all surprised, tells me he hears this all the time, or are we all dreaming?

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Posted

Just wonder if a pot of redex once in a while would have had the same effect, quite a big price hike between peasent fuel and posh gas.

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Posted

The BP Ultimate is about 10p more expensive and prior to going for a MOT I filled up the car with the Ultimate. The Jeep GC 3.0L auto on a long run increased its mpg by about 2mpg, but just may have been down to driving style of take that with a pinch of salt. However it was noticeably quieter and seem to pull better. At MOT time emissions were well in the parameters.

I have used Millers additive previously and that seem to give the similar results. TBH between the two, the price difference must be negligible as you pay £13 for a 500ml bottle and add about 80 - 100ml on a tank full. I would think that the Ultimate is cheaper. On many 4 x 4 forums it is recommended that you top up with Ultimate every 3 or 4 tankfuls.

I am yet to try adding 200ml of low ash two stroke mineral oil to a tank which is supposed to give the same effect and also help lubricate fuel pump etc.

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Posted

Hi Gary, If I may come in on this one, IMO there should be no such thing as premium diesel, it should be labelled correct diesel. Regards the supposed advantages, I have found the fitting of a PowerBox to my XT Kia Sorento and now my Toyota 3-0D4D Twincab has made marked improvements, but since adding CarLube 2st oil to my fills of diesel the difference is remarkable, at now 89,000 mls the engine starts smoother with no diesel slap, runs smoother and the mpg driven correctly is better. Happy caravanning, indoors.

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Posted

We always purchase the E10 diesel when in France and Spain..

Firstly because it is STILL much cheaper than any fuel in the UK and it seems to give better consumption.

The cost -- per Litre

in Spain it is €1.37 ---- [ £1.14]/Lt

in France it is €1.46 ----[£1.22]/Lt

How much in the UK ???thats the problem -- with UK "normal" costing ~£1.41 Lt [€1.61]/Lt

and the "V" power up to 10 pence more at ~£1.51 [€1.80]/Lt

that is why I simply cant afford it in the UK.

at least £35 per tank of fuel cheaper in Spain !!

that is the main reason the cost... it does run smoother and has better MPG

We totally fill the car to the brim just as we get on the boat in Bilbao..

The fuel consumption it DEFINITELY 5 - 6 mpg better so double whammy -- cheaper than the UK and better consumption.

The running seems smoother -- but that is subjective.

Maurice

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Posted

http://www.dieselcaronline.co.uk/features/the-extra-mile-april

There are conflicting reports just about everywhere you look. Some say it depends on the car, or the driver. Some say its just sales hype.

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Posted

We always purchase the E10 diesel when in France and Spain..

The cost -- per Litre

in Spain it is €1.37 ---- [ £1.14]/Lt

and the "V" power up to 10 pence more at ~£1.51 [€1.80]/Lt

at least £35 per tank of fuel cheaper in Spain !!

Maurice

On extremes of figures quoted it sounds as though you have 94+ litre tank ... my V70 wasn't that big.

E10 is currently the maximum allowable content (10% ethanol) for 'bio-fuels' (although in the UK I think you'll find we're in the 5 -7% range - heading towards 10%). Any greater bio % then there are problems with the fuel not meeting vehicle manufacturers specification.

One of the issues with bio-content is that the specific energy of ethanol is less than that of the fuel it is added to therefore to some (currently small) extent fuels with bio added in effect provide less bang-for-the-buck. V-power is a base fuel with performance enhancing additives (i.e. an attempt to give more bang-for-the-buck); so comparing the lowest price of an E fuel with the highest price of performance fuel isn't quite comparing apples with apples.

Also remember that the fuel tax and duty regimes in different EU member states is the main driver for price variation.

I suppose today's announcement by George Osbourne to hold fuel duty until the next election is an attempt to 'win us (motorists) over' ... sounds too good to be true, I'm sure we'll end up paying somewhere else!

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Posted

I tend to try and fill with a premium fuel, I was unsure of the effects to be fair but a friend in the petrochem industry laid it to me as "instead of buying redex"...the key additives and benefits are the cream off the top of the fuel stack....that said I have used BG244 Pro grade injector cleaner and of the cleaners I have used, Wynns, redex etc it seems the best by far. If supermarket fuel is the only one available then I'll use it but even after just 4 tanks in the range rover I notice a difference when using the premium fuel. To me it's worth it, for the few extra pence per litre I do see and feel a benefit.

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Posted

On extremes of figures quoted it sounds as though you have 94+ litre tank ... my V70 wasn't that big.

Tank is 75 Lt

cost of tank in Spain = €109

cost of tank in UK = €144

=€ 35 difference -- sorry meant €'s not £'s that should have been £29.22

would have been even BIGGER saving with the cheaper diesel fuel

Maurice

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Posted

I've since read several opinions on websites and found the lack of any consensus confusing, certainly does not help. I'd also agree with Ray, why should we be offered sub-standard fuel as a cheaper version? we are after all supposed to be fighting against waste and global warming, better mpg and less pump/injector wear being obviously inline with same!

All I know for the moment is the engine which is the sporty 155hp ST version and after effectively one whole tank full, runs far smoother with better mpg?!

As it happens then, I was on my own last night nipping down a deserted local ring road to MAKRO, (no beer!), this gave me a chance to really boot it in the lower gears and something I would todate never do because of the hideous row it made ohmy.png ....but and after 2nd which was quiet enough, 3rd was positively pleasant on the ears!!...that is reward enough for me knowing it's running far better... but I won't dare state how fast it went in 4th before it rapidly hit the blood line!! w00t.gif

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Posted

I've since read several opinions on websites and found the lack of any consensus confusing, certainly does not help. I'd also agree with Ray, why should we be offered sub-standard fuel as a cheaper version?

I don't think you will ever find a credible 'absolute' answer to the lack of consensus, this topic will always be a subject of fact mixed up with opinion, urban mythology and prejudice; each individual can done nothing more than try different fuels and make their own decision exactly as you have done.

All I would say is that I'm not sure it's correct to talk of sub-standard fuels, all standard road fuels have to meet minimum BS standards which are widely known to the vehicle manufacturers (and are marked on all forecourt pumps). The manufacturers design their motors to run on such fuel. The nature of the fuel distribution system these days is that it would extremely difficult to introduce 'sub standard' fuel to the system and it is difficult to see why there would be any incentive for anyone to do that anyway.

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Posted

"Seems" to work better for me -- and whilst it is 10 -15 p Lt cheaper in France and Spain I will use it.

Cant see why France and Spain can have cheaper road fuels than we have -- also domestic electric is cheaper too.

Probably because they are not scared of using nuclear for generation.

Also they will only buy French - or Spanish stuff in their shops - if there is a choice.

And their economy is supposed to be worse than ours -- according to Cameron this morning !

Maurice

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Posted

"Seems" to work better for me -- and whilst it is 10 -15 p Lt cheaper in France and Spain I will use it.

Cant see why France and Spain can have cheaper road fuels than we have -- also domestic electric is cheaper too.

Probably because they are not scared of using nuclear for generation.

Also they will only buy French - or Spanish stuff in their shops - if there is a choice.

And their economy is supposed to be worse than ours -- according to Cameron this morning !

Maurice

Doesn't a French company own one of our biggest electric suppliers? Most of the rest are owned by German and American companies. They can then use the British to subsidise they power charges in their home countries. The main problem is if they increase prices over there, there are huge rallies etc whereas we just accept whatever is thrown at us and pay up!

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Posted

Gary is this fuel from the esso garage at Ruddington?

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Posted

Gary is this fuel from the esso garage at Ruddington?

Errr...yes fear.gif

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Posted

I don't think you will ever find a credible 'absolute' answer to the lack of consensus, this topic will always be a subject of fact mixed up with opinion, urban mythology and prejudice; each individual can done nothing more than try different fuels and make their own decision exactly as you have done.

All I would say is that I'm not sure it's correct to talk of sub-standard fuels, all standard road fuels have to meet minimum BS standards which are widely known to the vehicle manufacturers (and are marked on all forecourt pumps). The manufacturers design their motors to run on such fuel. The nature of the fuel distribution system these days is that it would extremely difficult to introduce 'sub standard' fuel to the system and it is difficult to see why there would be any incentive for anyone to do that anyway.

Rays is not talking of 'sub-standard' what he's saying is, is it correct to tune an engine to suit that 'base' BS standard? therefore not getting the full potential of saving in mpg and emissions available from higher additive fuel?. More, also reducing wear so reducing expensive part replacement, such as fuel pump and injectors.

So Rays point is and I agree, the BS standard should be raised so not to force the engines standard to be kept unnecessarily low.

​And on that point, I feel sure savings would be greater than I'm experiencing, (looks like being 5mpg on £90 worth), if engines could unlock the full potential of higher quality fuel without the necessity to cope with poorer quality still being available

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Posted

Talking about tune ups. When last has any one had the vehicle properly tuned up and I don't mean a change of plugs or oil. Many years ago I can remember taking our car to a tune up specialist with the appropriate equipment. Afterwards the vehicle had more power, better mpg and a lot quieter. Not sure if this can be done with modern cars without changing the ECU.

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Posted

Talking about tune ups. When last has any one had the vehicle properly tuned up and I don't mean a change of plugs or oil. Many years ago I can remember taking our car to a tune up specialist with the appropriate equipment. Afterwards the vehicle had more power, better mpg and a lot quieter. Not sure if this can be done with modern cars without changing the ECU.

Have had mine done, nowadays you get the ECU re-mapped, this is the equivalent of a tune up. But Beware you do need to inform your insurance company...Alledgedly....

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Posted

Have had mine done, nowadays you get the ECU re-mapped, this is the equivalent of a tune up. But Beware you do need to inform your insurance company...Alledgedly....

Probably not worth the chance as the ECU probably can tell the insurance company how the car was being driven. Any inkling of a ECU upgrade may invalidate any warranty and most certainly any insurance cover if the insurance company were not notified although third party insurance will stay in place. I have read that if the ECU has been upgraded with no visual modifications, quite often the premium will stay the same.

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Posted

Have had mine done, nowadays you get the ECU re-mapped, this is the equivalent of a tune up. But Beware you do need to inform your insurance company...Alledgedly....

And theres the problems, I asked and it was a straight 20% on top of the premium! All their interested in as how big an increase in HP, 155 to 184, no if's, no but's, 20%!!

No amount of reasoning would shift my broker so rang insurance direct, nothing to do with us was their reply??

What really got my goat was the real figures behind the HP headline, standard the car is quoted by Ford to do 138mph, after remap 143mph, purely academic then.

When I said it was extra torque I was after so I could actually tow the van slower in 6th and save fuel, the reply was.... ahh but when you are solo and not restricted by the van you are able to use the extra power to the full?...really?!

Since though, I am told they have no idea what the original map is so unable to tell if anything has changed. Probably true me thinks? because the vast amount of original map remains unaltered which presumably includes any traceable file name or serial number within the code, presuming they know or could find out what those numbers might be for every single different car?!!!

If if they can, then the other thing of course is if the map had been changed before you bought it?, where would you stand after an accident if they could tell and that invalidated the insurance?!

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Posted

The italian tune-up of the 80's.....run the car at medium revs for 20 mins to blow out all the "muck" has never really worked for me...I have had remaps done, though you need to be clever how to tell the insurance. I have a JE Engineering "towing assistance service" with a print out of the low down torque increase and showing it as a benefit of safety to towing, added to the range rover and my insurance never change....if I had said I have a remap from 272-310bhp I am sure they would add 20% too. In reality it IS a towing aid....the rangey is no drag racer, nor a le mans special and I do want the extra umph for towing.....I get a small increase in MPG and a safer overtake but thats it really...

Back to fuel, I get a better all round drive with the v-max / premium stuff but if not available I chuck an additive in too...

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Posted

Well, I've actually come up with a cost saving! I know it's only on the first £90 quids worth but would appear to be saving at least 1p per mile, down from 19.5p per mile, regardless then, the other benefits I perceive plus at least no extra cost is a very pleasing initial result 2thumbsup.gif

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Posted

There are a couple of points here , I have always felt the car seemed to run better on French diesel, which I understand has a higher bio content , but perhaps this is due to the car getting an "Italian tuneup " as in towing gets the engine working harder , and long distances also help to blow out the muck ,

I seem to remember a Top gear program where in a blind test , no difference could be measured between standard and "premium " fuel, although I’m sure this was only a petrol driven test .

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Posted

all standard road fuels have to meet minimum BS standards

It's not BS standards that govern the quality of fuels. It's European Standards - and for diesel it's EN590. So standard French diesel meets the same standard as UK diesel.

The "Premium diesel v Standard diesel" topic has appeared on the forum many times and I was always impressed by the knowledge of our late member, Rob_Jax. Here's a reminder from a few years ago of one of his replies:-

Is there a difference between standard pump diesel and"performance" diesel?

Yes - proven by independent tests to offer between 3% and 5% better economy or power (but not both at the same time). But - and it's a big but - your diesel car MUST be able to retune itself to fully benefit from the much higher Cetane rating of the fuel (55 rather than 51 - effectively 10% better)

I see people reporting little difference on a Disco 300 - and that's a perfect example of the engine being from the wrong technology generation to achieve any more than partial benefit.

The very latest Euro IV or IV+ piezo-injector diesel engines will achieve close to the 5% maximum

Is there a difference between standard pump diesel and supermarket diesel?

No - both fuels are identical 51 Cetane index rated base fuels - supplied by the same refinery process... OK there is a slight difference in the cleaner and additive pack added after refining has finished, but that's it - and these don't change the Cetane rating...

Interestingly I see people reporting "real" differences between the two fuel sources - and I'm afraid that's just down to psychological effects - people believe one diesel must be better than the other and unconsciously drive differently...

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Posted

John, when I used supermarket fuel my diesel smoked a lot more and the petrol car lacked oomph! Changing to a brand like Shell or BP stopped the diesel smoking and it ran smoother and with the petrol car, the mpg increased slightly however the biggest difference is that it had more oomph and ran smoother.

Our conclusion is although the increase in mpg may be myth, the cars definitely ran smoother with the petrol car having more oomph! Having filled up the diesel recently with BP Ultimate I am now recording 10.1l per 100km (28mpg) regularly. Previously it was always 11l + per 100km (25mpg). This is in an urban environment as we seldom are able to use decent A roads. On a long run it drops to about 9L per 100km( 31mpg) or under.

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