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Gas Safe or AWS ?

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Posted

CC Magazine April has an article on "Gas Safety Checks" on the Technical page.

CITO (Caravan Industry Training Organisation) states that to gain AWS (Approved Workshop Scheme) status an engineer isn't required to be Gas Safe (successor to Corgi) registered.

Having suffered in the past from an AWS who weren't Corgi registered it seems high time that all caravan engineers working with gas systems should be Gas Safe registered AS A MINIMUM.

Do we still have a situation where AWS status is still not good enough?

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46 answers to this question

Posted

You learn something every day, I had assumed they were gas safe engineers.

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Posted

As an individual working on your own van you need NO qualifications to do the gas work, but you ARE expected to follow the rules and regulations in force.

As an engineer, or working on other peoples vans which are NOT for hire or reward, you must be at least ACoPS qualified.

To work on hire fleet vehicles or mobile homes (statics) you MUST be Gas Safe.

The ACoPS qualification is more than adequate for the safe work on caravan systems. Faults and wrongdoing is down to the INDIVIDUAL engineer not following the rules.

The subject of electrical periodic inspection causes enough argument and increased costing to the owner.

If owners want the top end qualifications in every field , then they must be prepared to meet the increased cost of engineers gaining these over the top qualifications.

As for Gas Safe, for example, what use is knowing all about domestic gas supplies when we work with LPG?

As for electrics, does knowing all about High Voltage equipment equate to working on LV and ELV installations?

As for water, does it matter how much pressure is in a water main, when we all know a van can only take a max of 1.5bar

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Posted

As an engineer, or working on other peoples vans which are NOT for hire or reward, you must be at least ACoPS qualified.

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Posted

i already have my acops , iam currently doing my gas safe , and are thinking i might start doing household plumbing as a side line , as there is more money to be made in servicing boilers in houses than doing caravans, why i ever have to learn about house gas plumbing and venting to do rental caravans is bonkers ,

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Posted

Frankly I don't understand your argument Lenny, it's 'agreed' by the HSE with the industry what's right and what's wrong, least that's how I understand it.

If so, then why or infact how can you need to know a better way?, if there is a better way, then surely it would be part of the ACoP?

IMO, if there is anything wrong with ACoP or indeed Gas Safe/Corgi, it's with it's application, not itself.

My point being I see the rubbish the 'qualified' produce and it's no worse than so called amateurs.

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Posted

Gas Safe - great if you boiler packs up at home. But give an LPG boiler to a Gas Safe engineer and they wouldn't have a clue. (Unless they have the LPG ratings on their Gas Safe registration). LPG and your gas at home are completely different beasts just like oil and water...

You don't need any gas qualifications to work on a caravan (unless its hired out or static). However I and many other engineers have done the AcOPS course on gas, not because we have to but because its good practice and it is a really good course.

Its not all about the certificates but for the caravan industry then most people believe that AcOPS is the right level of certification.

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Posted

Why not just insist that all caravan engineers have Gas Safe (LPG/Caravans) certification?

I don't see the need for ACoPS, whether it's inferior or equal. Multiple standards just lead to lower standards, in my experience.

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Posted

AcOPS or Gas Safe - its just not the same thing. If I had a Gas Safe card that allowed me to work on just caravans/motorhomes LPG system would you think that I could also work on your domestic boiler? Just flashing a Gas Safe card at you then you probably would! It could lead to confusion and that's the last thing that Gas Safe need.

The AcOPS Gas Certification is the scheme for touring caravans/motorhomes, there's no confusion in the industry.

Gas Safe is great and it is essential to keep the gas industry safe but there are big differences between LPG and domestic gas supplies. It is better to have different schemes to make sure that people understand the things that are relevant to their industry. Its no good knowing about high pressure gas supplies to factories when you are dealing with small bore low pressure LPG in caravans.

I hope that makes sense?

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Posted

Frankly I don't understand your argument Lenny, it's 'agreed' by the HSE with the industry what's right and what's wrong, least that's how I understand it.

If so, then why or infact how can you need to know a better way?, if there is a better way, then surely it would be part of the ACoP?

IMO, if there is anything wrong with ACoP or indeed Gas Safe/Corgi, it's with it's application, not itself.

My point being I see the rubbish the 'qualified' produce and it's no worse than so called amateurs.

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Posted

i wonder why i have gas safe lpg enginers asking me how to fix heaters , maybe i know more them them when it comes to lpg , , some cant even change elements , nothing to do with gas !!

like i said i might have a side line doing household boilers

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Posted

Frankly I don't understand your argument Lenny, it's 'agreed' by the HSE with the industry what's right and what's wrong, least that's how I understand it.

If so, then why or infact how can you need to know a better way?, if there is a better way, then surely it would be part of the ACoP?

IMO, if there is anything wrong with ACoP or indeed Gas Safe/Corgi, it's with it's application, not itself.

My point being I see the rubbish the 'qualified' produce and it's no worse than so called amateurs.

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Posted

anyone employing someone to work on their gas system in their touring caravan/motorhome should expect that person to be safe and competent. in the caravan industry the recognised qualification is ACoPs.

Where Gas Safe (formally known as CORGI) registration is not required i.e. work is only on tourers and motorhomes which are NOT hired out in the course of business, Caravan Industry Training has negotiated with the certification body UK Certification Ltd to deliver a competence based training and assessment course aimed specifically at the requirements of caravan service engineers. This is an ACoP industry qualification which is assessed by an accredited ACS centre. The course is usually based in a caravan workshop (or a Gas Training Centre), with classroom tuition and practical demonstration & assessment.

ACoPs should be seen as the minimum standard for anyone working on gas appliances where Gas Safe registration is not required. It can however be used as a 'stepping stone' to advance to the ACS training level. The ACoPs qualification is now required for membership of the Approved Workshop Scheme.

The ACoPs Qualification is for: Engineers working with LPG on Touring and/or Motorhomes – provided they are not hired out in the course of business. It is NOT sufficient for engineers working on Caravan Holiday Homes or Park Homes and it will not be recognised by Gas Safe.

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Posted

I think where we agree Lenny is the difference between standards and qualifications, the problem today is there is no real foundation taught, a set of fundamental standards to rely and built upon.

Today people are taught to a point, to do 'a job' no more no less, there is no depth to it, little way what's taught can be expanded on it's own, it requires another course and another ad-infinitum...like spoon feeding and totally disjointed.

Not long after I became officially 'skilled' (after 5 years hard slog for a pittance), I first experienced the new breed of 'fast track' engineers, 6month wonders we called them, today it's not even six months and my lad tells me their called 'boil in the bags' ?.... five minutes and their done!

My lads a sparky but not got his ticket, not that he can't pass the course with ease you understand, simply can't afford it and the registration fees that go with it.

So he's been limited to working under someone with a ticket, does all the work the same as that someone but cannot certify it, and therefore limited by reduced wages hence he can't afford a ticket, how's that song go?...there's a hole in my bucket dear Liza......

So it's not tickets for electrical or gas work that count, it's the guys skill doing the work and how good he/she is that matters, tickets are no more than an indication

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Posted

Quote,

So it's not tickets for electrical or gas work that count, it's the guys skill doing the work and how good he/she is that matters, tickets are no more than an indication

What a superb comment, All these corgi, acops,Scams, whatever you want to call them are fast becoming the scurge of britain, They are purely a scam, They revolve round faceless unqualified people who make lots of money for certificates admin, Courses Etc, Who usually have NO practical knowledge whatsoever, You only need to look at the demise of CORGI where ALL the genuine plumbers opted out and left it to the mob, What on earth was wrong with the proper training a six year apprenticeship provided before the lunatics took over the asylum, Safety in many cases is NOT rocket science.

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Posted

but to a person employing a tradesman to do work for them, at least there is some evidence that they know what they are doing by holding the certificate or qualification in the first place. without it you may ask how qualified a tradesman is.

in my experience there are far too many cowboys out their working on caravans who shouldnt be allowed any where near them and if you are competent and know what you are doing, what is the harm of getting your certificate to put a customers mind at ease?

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Posted

Unfortunately most of the certificates are being provided by cowboys simply for profit, IE corgi inspectors had very little knowledge whatsoever hence rubbing the profesionals up the wrong way,

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Posted

i`m sorry but i will have to strongly disagree regards the ACoPs courses run through CITO. they are very good courses.

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Posted

i like them (apart from the cost ) only fault i have is actualy getting hold of someone from cito ,

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Posted

but to a person employing a tradesman to do work for them, at least there is some evidence that they know what they are doing by holding the certificate or qualification in the first place. without it you may ask how qualified a tradesman is.

in my experience there are far too many cowboys out their working on caravans who shouldnt be allowed any where near them and if you are competent and know what you are doing, what is the harm of getting your certificate to put a customers mind at ease?

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Posted

Here, Here, I too find the £500 objectionable.

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Posted

PETER,

the reason you are excluded from servicing new caravans is because you are not a member of AWS. and to be a member you need city & guilds in caravan servicing, ACoPs and CITO electrical competency certificates as a minimum requirement. it has absolutely nothing to do with being a member of the NCC

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Posted

I am excluded from servicing new caravans

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Posted

i know of several people who cant get aws approval as they use small vans or even cars to work from

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Posted

Is AWS "qualification" for the business as a whole or each individual person? That makes one helluva difference to cost and MINIMUM standard.

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Posted

if you are a workshop employing staff there has to be a minimum level of staff with (i think because it has changed recently) 100% C+G for service technicians, 50% ACoPs and 50% CITO electrical competency. if you are a sole trader working on your own, you must have all 3 as a minimum.

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