24 replies to this topic

[Brassneck]

Just over 12 months ago my partner and i bought a 57 reg Kia C'eed estate. It was serviced on pick up and been serviced 2 weeks ago in accordance with service schedule. But, the gearbox has developed a fault. Its done 55k miles so a bit of a shock to find out the box "may" be dead and a new one needed.

Now the warranty still has 2 years left to run, but the dealer (bought from and done services) has said that as the car only has 2 service stamps the warranty wont cover the gearbox. The car should have 4 stamps.

My argument is we bought the car from them on the strength of the warranty, which was reflected in the price we paid for the car, and if they sold us a car knowingly with a void warranty then it's misrepresentation as far as im concerned as the warranty is worthless and the price of the car was inflated at time of sale.

Any opinions on this?

[Mister H]

Brassneck, on 22 June 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Just over 12 months ago my partner and i bought a 57 reg Kia C'eed estate. It was serviced on pick up and been serviced 2 weeks ago in accordance with service schedule. But, the gearbox has developed a fault. Its done 55k miles so a bit of a shock to find out the box "may" be dead and a new one needed.

Now the warranty still has 2 years left to run, but the dealer (bought from and done services) has said that as the car only has 2 service stamps the warranty wont cover the gearbox. The car should have 4 stamps.

My argument is we bought the car from them on the strength of the warranty, which was reflected in the price we paid for the car, and if they sold us a car knowingly with a void warranty then it's misrepresentation as far as im concerned as the warranty is worthless and the price of the car was inflated at time of sale.

Any opinions on this?

So are the two service stamps missing from BEFORE you bought the car Lenny?

Who is the warranty provider? Have you spoken with them and explained the position? or is the dealer "underwriting" their own warranty?

[RogerL]

Mister H, on 22 June 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

So are the two service stamps missing from BEFORE you bought the car Lenny?

Who is the warranty provider? Have you spoken with them and explained the position? or is the dealer "underwriting" their own warranty?

It'll be under Kia's own 7-year warranty - or should be. The advertising at the time of sale would have shown that but it may not be available.

Kia themselves may have records if the car was serviced but not stamped. If the car was sold on a "Kia Approved Used" basis you might get some joy with a hard fight - but if it was simply a Kia dealer selling a used car like they would a Vauxhall, etc then you may be on a loser.

It's an unusual situation so may pay to get specialist advice.

[Brassneck]

The warranty is Kias 7 year own, and i've got the documents that stipulate that etc etc. Yes the service stamps were missing before we bought the car but as we were offered the first service free, on collection of car, and the second one free a year later (three weeks ago) we were happy with that. We have signed warranty documents to transfer the warranty into our name but the dealer is stating without the previous 2 stamps Kia will not honour it.

[Mister H]

Brassneck, on 22 June 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

The warranty is Kias 7 year own, and i've got the documents that stipulate that etc etc. Yes the service stamps were missing before we bought the car but as we were offered the first service free, on collection of car, and the second one free a year later (three weeks ago) we were happy with that. We have signed warranty documents to transfer the warranty into our name but the dealer is stating without the previous 2 stamps Kia will not honour it.

The dealer has clearly sold the car to you outside of Kia's warranty terms and conditions. That is their fault, not yours. When I was in the trade the dealership I worked for would have covered the cost of this mistake themselves, but they were a decent family company with morals – sadly there aren’t many motor traders left like that!

The fact is that the vehicle was sold to you with the remainder of the balance of the warranty. If you have documentary evidence to support that but the dealer has now realised that they have cocked up, it’s their own fault and they should be footing the bill for anything not covered. Given that the value of the warranty compared to vehicle purchase price is difficult to quantify at this stage you will need good advice but I wouldn’t be too hasty to pay for legal advice at this stage; it will likely be prohibitive.

I can tell you from experience that the last thing that the dealership wants is a call from Trading Standards (tradingstandards@wirral.gov.uk or 0151 691 8020). It’s every car dealer’s nightmare. I would start with them. I would also put your complaint in writing as soon as possible and keep a copy.
If the dealership stand fast then let me know and I will run it past a Partner and work for some further advice.

Alternatively – do you know where the car was before you bought it? Is it possible that the car was previously serviced but that the dealership couldn’t stamp the book as it was left out of the vehicle at service times, perhaps because the owner was forgetful? If you can prove it has been serviced in accordance with the manufacturers recommended service intervals Kia can’t argue. A “stamped book” isn’t a requirement and copies of previous invoices are perfectly adequate to show that the vehicle has been looked after properly, so a call to the original supplying dealership might help. In fact, a main dealer service history isn't even required as long as the vehicle is correctly serviced "in accordance to the manufacturers specification using genuine approved parts" - Block Exemption Regulation changed that years ago.

Of course, if the vehicle was owned by a hire company previously there is every chance it wasn’t serviced at all!

[toscal]

You could also call Kia's head office in the UK,and see what they say.
If all else fails contact the local paper, no dealer in the current climate wants bad press.

[Surfer]

You don't say whether it is a manual or automatic gearbox.  Was it bought from a Kia dealership and what sort of price did you pay for it as that is very relevant, i.e. going price, lower or higher than average price?  Warranty are a bit meaningless however Sale of Goods may be your best friend as it states;

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
•  Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.
•  Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit
• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).
• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)
• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

Can I suggest that you register with http://www.consumera...forum/index.php and highlight your issue in the appropriate forum?  You will get some helpful replies from people who are experienced in these matters.

[Mister H]

Manual or automatic it makes no difference - the warranty is still invalid (according to the dealership).

[RogerL]

Mister H, on 23 June 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

Manual or automatic it makes no difference - the warranty is still invalid (according to the dealership).

The warranty may have been invalidated by the two missing service stamps but rights under SoGA remain intact.

[Mister H]

RogerL, on 23 June 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

The warranty may have been invalidated by the two missing service stamps but rights under SoGA remain intact.

Fairly sure I never disputed that Roger. My point is that whether the gearbox is manual or auto, the issue remains the same, so knowing which it is makes absolutely no difference to Lenny's problem whatsoever.

[Brassneck]

Car was bought from Kia dealership. Same dealer did both services, on pick up and few weeks ago as per schedule. Gearbox is manual.

[Surfer]

I assumed it could be an auto box due to your reference stating the gearbox may be "dead". Not sure what you mean by this because if it is a clutch issue, it may be regarded as fair wear and tear as the car is 5 years old.  As a matter of interest have you verified the mileage by checking MOT history?  If from a Kia dealership it should have been stated at time of purchase that Kia's 7 year warranty no longer applied due to missed services.

[Mister H]

Surfer, on 23 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

As a matter of interest have you verified the mileage by checking MOT history?  If from a Kia dealership it should have been stated at time of purchase that Kia's 7 year warranty no longer applied due to missed services.

The MOT history won't help track the mileage for the the first 3 years as the vehicle won't have been subject to a test for three years from the date of registration.

HPI report that approximately half of all cars it checks are revealed as having a mileage discrepancy within the first 3 years of their life.

[Brassneck]

I personally would of bet money on it being the clutch/thrust bearing. I've owned Fords from the 70s onwards and know what a thrust bearing sounds and acts like. Independent gearbox guy had a listen and reckons it's the box on it's way out, then stated it's a Hyundai box and they are usually bulletproof. Thanks!!!

But im pre-empting the dealers telling us it's the box and trying to relieve us of £1200-1500 when i presumed it was covered under warranty and partly why we chose the car we did.

[bobnchris]

Lenny,

As most car sales dont register their 'ownership' you should have a previous address on the log book - ask them