46 replies to this topic

[Grandad Graham]

Just got a new photo card licence as my pink and green one was looking extremely moth-eaten

I have done a search and can't find any mention from any one about this BUT on the website I noted this rather ambiguous bit of info

Personally I am just not sure whether or not we ALL need to take a test to tow over 750kg or we are OK on our existing licence

Quote

Existing car or small vehicle drivers

If you already have a licence to drive cars or small vehicles (category B and BE), you'll keep your entitlement to tow trailers. Your entitlement to tow trailers will stay as it was when you passed your driving test.
To tow heavier trailers after 19 January 2013, you'll need to follow the rules for new drivers
Category B
There is no change to category B entitlement to tow trailers.
Category BE
If your trailer weighs over 750 kg and the combined trailer and towing vehicle weight is more than 3,500 kg, you’ll need to pass a further test. The trailer you tow must not be heavier than 3,500 kg. This test will be shown on your driving licence as category BE.

So Guys and Gals

Over to you to help me sort it out

[GaryB]

No, if you currently hold a B&E licence, you retain the B&E entitlements.  If you hold a B licence, you retain the up to 3500kg train weight entitlement.

See the title from the web page:

New driving licence rules will come into force on 19 January 2013, for drivers of cars and small vehicles (category B and BE) to tow trailers. The new rules will apply if you pass your test after that date. Find out how these changes could affect you.

[nick]

My licence already covers me to drive C1E category (over 3500kg and upto 7500kg) as i passed my test in 1990,  i believe this will still stand as the valid to date on the licence for all categorys is 2039.
Check the back of your driving licence card to should tell you on there your valid to date.

[GaryB]

There was talk about having an intermediate entitlement (B+ or something) that allowed newer B-only licence holders to up the train weight from 3,500kgs to 4,250kgs if they undertook additional training rather than the full B+E test.  I can't see any reference to that so maybe it was abandoned.

Irrespective of what the CC say, I maintain it is very difficult for a B category licence holder to tow a new family caravan with a new family estate car.  I also say that there are a hell of a lot of B category licence holders towing caravans & trailers over their B-entitlement, but that isn't my problem......

[nick]

from the directgov website
Quote
All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM. They also have entitlement to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kgs MAM.


http://www.direct.go...cles/dg_4022564

[RogerL]

GaryB, on 20 June 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

Irrespective of what the CC say, I maintain it is very difficult for a B category licence holder to tow a new family caravan with a new family estate car.

A 1500kg kerbweight car (GVW about 2000kg) towing a 1500kg MTPLM fits nicely into that category - if you want to stick to 85% then a 1620kg car towing a 1380kg caravan is about the limit.

That may not allow "top-of-the-range" choices but it's not that restrictive - or the towing test can be taken!

[GaryB]

I've noticed GVW's creeping up, my last two cars have been nearer 2150kgs from memory.  Agree with you 100% about taking a B+E test if you want to tow more, but I just can't help feel that:

The newcomers to caravanning are blissfully unaware of this.
The Caravan Club seldom mention it (the C&CC do when reviewing a caravan, they state whether a B+E licence is likely to be needed).
The caravan industry seems to think that B+E licence holders will be the only ones buying caravans for the foreseable future (or they would all look at weights).

There's nothing anyone can do about it other than make folks aware if they show an interest in buying a caravan.  My own personnal opinion is that the B+E V's B licence types just isn't publicised enough by those that ought to.....

[FishyDave]

Grandad Graham, on 20 June 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Just got a new photo card licence as my pink and green one was looking extremely moth-eaten

I have done a search and can't find any mention from any one about this BUT on the website I noted this rather ambiguous bit of info

Personally I am just not sure whether or not we ALL need to take a test to tow over 750kg or we are OK on our existing licence




So Guys and Gals

Over to you to help me sort it out

I think the original quote is quite misleading - if you go mainly on the title and just skim through the text, you can be left with the impression that, even as a category BE licence holder, you have to take an additional test. It's only the very last sentence that puts a different spin on it and makes you realise that you're already qualified if you hold BE.

It would be worth checking your new licence to make sure that you still have BE. The DVLA has been known to make mistakes - lots of people lost their motorcycle entitlements when they upgraded to photo licences, and I imagine it can happen with other categories too. Always take a photocopy of your original before sending it away for replacement - that way you have evidence of your previous entitlements if they fail to transfer them correctly.

[Hawkeye]

According to my licence my BE entitlement lasts until 27/09/22. Current Gross Train Weight 3805Kg.

[RogerL]

FishyDave, on 21 June 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

It would be worth checking your new licence to make sure that you still have BE. The DVLA has been known to make mistakes - lots of people lost their motorcycle entitlements when they upgraded to photo licences, and I imagine it can happen with other categories too. Always take a photocopy of your original before sending it away for replacement - that way you have evidence of your previous entitlements if they fail to transfer them correctly.

Looking across quite a few car forums it does seem to happen a lot - so always take a photocopy and consider "mis-laying" your existing licence just before renewal. Without the evidence of your previous licence entitlement, DVLA will ask you to provide evidence of pass certificates, which of course no-one has because they get sent in to upgrade the licence originally !

Off the main point, those renewing their licence at age 70 will also need a self-certifying medical to retain BE - or - a chargeable medical to retain BE and C1E - but if you don't need C1E (vehicles 3501-7500kg) then you don't need to bother with the chargeable medical and just let the C1E lapse - at 69, not everyone can pass the medical so may be forced to let the C1E lapse anyway.

[Beejay]

It appears that one change to take place in 2013 for B entitlement is  that  the total combined weight cannot exceed 3500 kg**  but the   requirement that a trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the tow vehicle has been dropped.  This will bring the U.K. into line with the rest of the  E.U. where such a restriction never applied.


** Up to 4250 kg if the trailer is less than 750 kg MPTLM

[RogerL]

Beejay, on 21 June 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

It appears that one change to take place in 2013 for B entitlement is  that  the total combined weight cannot exceed 3500 kg**  but the   requirement that a trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the tow vehicle has been dropped.  This will bring the U.K. into line with the rest of the  E.U. where such a restriction never applied.


** Up to 4250 kg if the trailer is less than 750 kg MPTLM

The idea of B only drivers towing in excess of 100% of kerbweight, which this change will allow, isn't something we should cheer about.

[FishyDave]

RogerL, on 21 June 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

The idea of B only drivers towing in excess of 100% of kerbweight, which this change will allow, isn't something we should cheer about.

I doubt that, on average, they're any less competent to do so than your average driver with 'grandad' BE rights.

[RogerL]

FishyDave, on 22 June 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

I doubt that, on average, they're any less competent to do so than your average driver with 'grandad' BE rights.

Those of us old enough to have gained "grandad" BE rights actually had that right for many years/decades before the BE was introduced - some of us started towing during the short-lived 50mph towing limit where not exceeding 100% was necessary to take advantage of the new higher limit.

Almost to a man, those towing before BE and "grandad" rights were introduced always accepted that heavy car plus light trailer was the way to get stability and safety - too many modern drivers simply look at the towing limit for their car and buy a caravan of that weight and totally ignore the fact that a car's towing limit is meant to cover agricultural trailers and other trailers much more stable than caravans.

[FishyDave]

RogerL, on 22 June 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

Those of us old enough to have gained "grandad" BE rights actually had that right for many years/decades before the BE was introduced - some of us started towing during the short-lived 50mph towing limit where not exceeding 100% was necessary to take advantage of the new higher limit.

Almost to a man, those towing before BE and "grandad" rights were introduced always accepted that heavy car plus light trailer was the way to get stability and safety - too many modern drivers simply look at the towing limit for their car and buy a caravan of that weight and totally ignore the fact that a car's towing limit is meant to cover agricultural trailers and other trailers much more stable than caravans.

Seriously? I passed my test around 1986, I think, and I knew stuff all about towing. When I was finally talked into buying a trailer tent, I went out and bought Towing Roadcraft and read it thoroughly. Believe it or not, I still came away without the knowledge that you couldn't tow in the outside lane of the motorway (okay, covered by the Highway Code once I finally got around to thoroughly reading that) but I wonder how many even bothered to research towing at all.

Going back to the 90s, you frequently used to see 17 footers on the backs of Vauxhall Novas - apparently the 1.5TD lump was just about up to the job, but the rest of the car obviously wasn't. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the kind of behaviour that sparked the 100% limit for class B only in the first place. The "If the hitch fits, you can tow it" attitude pervades the whole of the driving community. And you may have passed your test in 1970 but still be towing for the first time tomorrow.

Presumably this guy had class B+E entitlements.